Back at it again! This time it’s just a tender all by itself. I normally wouldn’t buy just the tender, but for this eBay auction, the pictures showed some unique features. The first thing that caught my eye was the toggle switch protruding from the bottom of the tender floor. Next was what looked like a reed switch, presumably to sense speed from one of the axles for a sound system.
Another feature was what looked like a charging port on the rear bulkhead, which would imply some sort of battery power scheme. Unfortunately at the time, there was no separate engine listed without the tender that may have matched up to it. Hoping there was to piece together the mystery of what lies within. Oh well, for the “Buy It Now” price, it’s worth the gamble.
The hope is there’s another Phoenix sound system inside at the very least. Battery power would be an unexpected bonus. Although this is likely all very old technology, it’s new to me. And what better way to learn about these older, no longer manufactured locomotives than to buy a few, investigate, and experiment with them?
Surprise!
When it finally arrived, the initial inspection revealed it was dirty. Just like the other items, it looked like it was placed in the box, straight off the rails. Not like it just sat on a shelf long enough to gather dust, this is last run outside and left to sit stored there, like part of an estate sale score or something. Could very well be. And like the other tenders, the shell came off and got a good scrub.
But not until finding a few surprises! The first is the weight. This thing is HEAVY! Next, the toggle switch isn’t the momentary on, center off, momentary on style expected, but rather just a standard, two position toggle! Hmmm… Guess that means I didn’t get the Phoenix sound system I was expecting. Not sure what to expect now. Time to get that shell of and see what’s really inside there.
Where to start? There’s a LOT more packed inside here than what I expected. First is a large, HEAVY, NiMH battery pack from Cordless Renovations. That’s connected to a small circuit board with that toggle switch on it. That’s also connected to what looks to be a three terminal voltage regulator on a substantial heat sink. Guessing this is the power supply and that toggle selects between charge and run.
Score!
From there, the power supply feeds what looks like a large interface “breakout” board with four slide switches labelled track/battery, on/off, smoke on/off, and lamp on/off. There are numerous connectors, some with something plugged in and others empty. There are a few pads labelled but not populated with any connectors at all. We’ll get into more detail in a bit.
The biggest thing of note is the daughter card, piggybacked on the interface card, labelled with a 2.4GHz FCC ID and a short, straight wire antenna. This has wireless remote control! Another big surprise is what looks like a sound card. It has the expected momentary toggle switch pigtailed to it. Could it be the volume control switch for another Phoenix sound card?
This is exciting! For the cost of a sound system or a wireless remote system or a battery pack or even just a tender alone, we them ALL! It’s going to take more sleuthing to figure out what we have exactly, but this was more of a score than I ever expected. Is this another one of those seller didn’t know what they had items? Or knew what they had but also knew it didn’t work?
Many Questions
I feel like a kid in a candy shop! But now it’s time to answer some questions. My recent success with Google’s search by image feature prompted another try for that wireless remote control. It’s a 2.4 GHz Revolution Train Engineer receiver with sound! Wow. Now all we need is the transmitter. And the programming software. And Crest or Aristocraft to still be in business to get them.
The transmitters can be had on eBay, and even some online dealers still list them, albeit as back ordered or out of stock. The good news is they can be had for a price, somewhere between $150 and $200. As for the programmer and the software, that may prove to be difficult to find, let alone acquire. Unfortunately it’s one of those need one to reverse engineer one situations.
The next question to answer is what sounds system is this? For the first time the search by image has let me down. Time to take a different tack… Searching for Phoenix together with the patent ID labelled on the card turns up a link to a Big Sound 2K2, like the one I already have. But this one doesn’t look like it, It’s smaller and has a different configuration. Thankfully the link also has others listed.
The Search Continues
The next in line is the P5 model. This appears to have the same pinouts, but the picture doesn’t quite match the configuration of the components. It’s difficult to know for sure since the entire card is protected by a large piece of heat shrink tube covering everything except the connectors on either end. And there’s a piece of sticky backed velcro stuck to that, together with its mate holding it to the tender floor.
Next up is the P8 and what looks to be the perfect match. Same pinouts as the P5, except this one warns that without some connection to the speed sensing input, which there aren’t, there won’t be any sound. Bummer. But it also says that it should provide background steam sounds or diesel startup sounds when idle. So which is it. Idle sounds or no sounds? Guess we’ll see when bench testing.
Looked up the battery too. That particular model is no longer available, but other styles are, so all is not lost. A more more modern lithium style battery would be preferrable to the older NiMH technology, but beggars and all that…
Bench Testing
Now to find out if it’s worth the money spent. Since the run/charge switch position isn’t labelled, it seems prudent to remove the battery leads from the circuit card and deal with it separately. Thankfully the connections are all screw terminals, labelled even. I don’t have any charging equipment for that multi-cell style battery pack, just single cell chargers, usually four cells at once.
Using the bench supply and closely monitoring the voltage and current should provide a good enough indication of charge rate and completion. The label says 18V, but it requires more like 22V before any appreciable current begins to flow. We’re talking an amp or more vs. tens of milliamps. The charging current continues to fall as the battery voltage increases. The supply voltage must be increased to compensate.
The goal is to keep the current above an amp without requiring excessive voltage. Charging is complete once the current falls to less than 100 milliamps at full charge voltage, which in this case appears to be ~22V. Without doing the math to add up cell voltages in series, we’ll call that good enough. It’s taken several hours already and should provide enough power to do some testing.
Bummer
Flipping the switch causes the battery voltage to drop from ~22V to ~2V? What is going on here? Did I somehow create a short when I broke the charging connector trying to remove it from the tender shell? Well shoot! Is it that 5V regulator? Is there something else going on with the sound card? Is the battery pack weak? Without jumping in and disconnecting and testing everything individually, who knows?
A first pass through everything looks like the charging connector is shorting the battery when switched to the apparent charging position. With that connector disconnected, the battery voltage remains the same with the switch in both positions. Maybe it just expects the charger to be plugged in before switching to charging? Dunno. Guess I’ll need to fashion a charging plug for the bench supply to find out.
Time to totally eliminate that little power distribution circuit card from the equation. The charging port is now disconnected as well as the battery leads. That leaves just the power feed connections to the Phoenix sound card and the wireless remote interface card. Thankfully they’re screw terminals as well. Time to isolate the sound card and remove those power leads too.
A Sound Success
As a precaution, even the miniature JST connector is unplugged, presumably feeding all the external triggers to the sound card from the wireless remote control. The bench supply is set to 12V. As the test leads are connected to the power wires of the P8, it hisses to life! It’s the steam startup sequence. Another working sound system. It looks to be more modern and smaller than the Big Sound 2K2 unit in the Mikado.
Rather than just jump in and try to power the wireless remote card, it seems prudent to reverse engineer that small run/charge switch card. Time to draw the schematic and hopefully get a better idea how it interacts with the charging socket. It’s the 2.5mm variety and doesn’t need the 2.1mm adapter. It does rely on the charging connector to complete the circuit when no plug is inserted.
Time to check the health of the 5V three terminal regulator. At this point, if that’s not the problem, then that leaves the wireless remote control card. Nope. Not the 5V regulator. Just briefly touching the bench supply to the battery input leads causes the voltage to drop and current limiting to engage at 10A! It almost welds the wire to the test lead clip!
Running Out Of Options
Switching to track power doesn’t seem to have any effect. That is to say, regardless of where the test leads are connected, the power doesn’t seem to get past the wheels. It seems to have pickups that connect through the wheel bearings, but with one wheel isolated from the axle, it amounts to just four wheel pickup, not eight.
A bit more fiddling reveals that the short is polarity dependent. There should be an assumed bridge rectifier to convert to the proper polarity but seems to be expecting the correct DC polarity. Turns out the track inputs do the same thing. Nothing for one polarity, dead short for the other. Guess I just managed to find the correct polarity the first time around.
Buzzed out the diodes on the interface card and they all act like diodes, none conduct in both directions. Removing the wireless card cures the short. Well, that’s that. Something’s wrong with the wireless remote card. Bummer. Glad I didn’t already spring for that transmitter! One thing left to check, the underside of the interface card, in case it’s double sided. Nope.
Fresh Fried Circuits
Throwing in the towel this time. The plug in wireless remote control card is fried. Unfortunately, it also has the motor control drivers on it, eight power transistors under a heat sink. Without it, about the only thing battery powered is the sound system. It’s a little disappointing, but I put enough of it back together to be able to do just that, battery power the sound system by flipping a switch.
It’s a good jumping off point though. This will allow experimenting with the different motor controller setups we have, only this time they’ll be built into the engine itself. Going to need some sort of full wave bridge if running track power though. Next steps would be charging from track power. That’s something I’d like to add to the passenger car lighting and the old style 9V powered cabeese marker lights.